Not all sill plates are required to be pressure treated, so you may want to check your local codebut if you have any doubts, just go ahead and use pressure-treated material. After the 3rd year, the smell from the smelly area stopped. If youre like many contractors, chances are good that a substantial amount of your time is spent fixing someone elses work. Include your email address to get a message when this question is answered. It may need a "shave" too. The contractor said that they didn't run much during the install. This is an ongoing nightmare for us but I'm so thankful for everyone providing their input. I'm glad you're going with legal counsel. In a pinch, you could even try using a serrated butter knife. NIOSH, OSHA and EPA recomend that un-protected workers or occupants leave the building when spraying is being done and not return until all residual vapors are ventilated and all dust particles (from shaving the finished foam) are cleaned up to safe levels. Always keep knife and saw blades pointed away from your body so youre less likely to cut yourself. Sometimes the amount of warping in waterlogged wood can be extreme. Closed-cell spray foam will prevent this water from moving anywhere significant, and it is likely to seal the issue for you already. I think you are spot on. This means "air comes in on one end and goes out the other". A single can of spray foam insulation is great for small sealing jobs. In Zone 6, a 2x4 wall needs at least R-7.5 for the exterior foam layer. I've never had an installer recommend that, but they sometimes recommend leaving windows open for 12-24 hours. I felt symptomatic being up there as well as someone else. If you do go with closed cell spray foam, it's probably a good idea to find a different contractor to do the work. Like food, expanding foam sealant is best when it's fresh, or at least not expired. Resources for Architects and Engineers for Stego Vapor Barrier Products. hbspt.cta._relativeUrls=true;hbspt.cta.load(2046883, 'a3c1bde0-fc60-4215-9673-7f044c64ce1f', {"useNewLoader":"true","region":"na1"}); For example, a wavy or humped hardwood floor is a good (and all too common) indicator of a problem in a crawl space resulting in damage to the floors above. We use cookies to make wikiHow great. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. Best practice is to run cross-flow ventilation for 72 hours after installation, to clear both the aerosolized particles and any off-gassing chemicals. Here's a case for why you should use spray foam over fiberglass insulation. When the foam has cured, carve off any overflowing bits and seal the box for shipping. Angela is a contributing writer for DoItYourself.com. Of course, your contract doesn't say that, but it might be useful reference point for conveying what scale of effort might be needed to remedy this. For better options, see this article: "How to Design a Wall." It's also very likely to cost more to remove the spray foam than it was to have it installed in the first place. This feature has been temporarily disabled during the beta site preview. Also following through on homeowners to work that channel as well. Happened last summer and we were out of house for six months in what can only be described as a nightmare. Dig out the insulation, lower 8 - 12 " or so, and drive the plate back in place then secure it to your slab. He has also worked as a seasonal employee for the landscaping companies Fisk Lawnscapes and Davey Tree Expert Company and as a Remodeling Assistant for the home renovation company Improvement Pros, LLC. For large holes like this, the trick is to fill the perimeter, let the foam cure and carve it off. Window spray foam is effective for both window frames and door frames. They used closed-cell and open-cell foam in our attic. They will have to remove what they can, demo in areas where the foam is inaccessible (which are on the finished portion of our third floor) and completely remove what they can. If you've already tried it, and it didn't work, then there is no argument to be made that maybe ventilation alone is all that the insurance company needs to pay to have done. I'm sharing this to let you know that high humidity, in my case, seemed to bring the smell back, but that eventually it does go away totally. Thank you and any other advice is great. 25 January 2022. https://www.thomasnet.com/articles/plastics-rubber/closed-cell-open-cell/. Trim the plate as you've suggested. I just don't want to get into a situation where the air quality tests are lowered but the odor is more faint meaning it is still there and we'll battle down the road over liability and remediation all over again. They encapsulated the areas where they removed the open-cell with closed cell foam. Line the floor of the crawl space with a high-quality plastic vapor barrier. I appreciate your thoughts on the matter. As far as encapsulating with more foam? Acetone is a solvent that dissolves uncured polyurethane foam and can be used to clean up foam before it cures. Avoid cutting the foam before it finishes curing since you could damage the entire treatment. Do you recommend any channels to reach those people? Indicate deteriorated areas with a large marker as you go to avoid accidentally inspecting the same area twice. Im not exaggerating the time required. Thanks for your advice. The smell somewhat dissipated, but would come back particularly strong when it was humid outside in one of the two areas. If you buy something through our links,wemay earn an affiliate commission. You don't want to remove the insulation yourself only to have to hire someone to fix the damage you caused. We had an indoor air quality test done (TO-15 VOC) test performed that showed high levels of 1-4 Dioxane and a Total VOC of 1900 ug/m3. Resources for Building Owners for Stego Vapor Barrier Products. As a retired lawyer, I agree with Charlie that you should consult one. Josh Goldenberg. Raise any joists along the damaged section of the sill plate using a temporary wall, then cut out and replace the damaged material. Closed Cell Spray Foam. Thanks to all authors for creating a page that has been read 49,508 times. Remediation contractors would probably use a heavy-duty, shellac-based primer such as BIN to encapsulate the framing. This is especially true when dealing with crawl spaces, where the finished product is hidden from the light of day. (Many local codes require this 3 gap between where the vapor barrier/insulation ends and the wood sill begins. Test it on a hidden area first to ensure that damage dont result. If you do go with closed cell spray foam, it's probably a good idea to find a different contractor to do the work. We are no longer supporting IE (Internet Explorer) as we strive to provide site experiences for browsers that support new web standards and security practices. Air quality test (TO-15) samples indicated lower tVOCs but higher 1,4 Dioxane than last time and the presence of 1,2 Dichloropropane which was not previously detected. If you wait too long, there is only one way to remove it, a whole lot of scrubbing. Gabriel Connor Salter is a freelance writer and editor who has had over 280 articles published by various organizations.   I plan on speaking with legal counsel to get their opinion as well as if they have dealt with this in the past and can provide some context in that regard. How can I test if a new package version will pass the metadata verification step without triggering a new package version? Unfortunately, spray foam is often installed incorrectly, broadly coated on sill plates and floor joists without necessary considerations or moisture control, like a properly installed vapor barrier in place. It is not encouraging to say the least. Plugging holes on the exterior of your house with foam sealant is a great way to stop air infiltration, but it may not keep out pests. It's imperative that you read the user manual carefully before using these tools. submitted to our "DoItYourself.com Community Forums". Dont get me wrong, spray foam has many beneits with a high R-Value and great air sealing properties. There should be a stud where your plate is cut. Thank you. This is more common with closed cell foam, but it happens with open cell foam, too. Place the blade of your metal scraper against the top edge of the foam so it's flat against the surface. The dew point and RH get up close to 90 F and 90%. In addition, Tom serves as Sustainability Manager, overseeing Stegos leadership in holistic product and corporate sustainability. Labor involves setting up materials, preparing the job site, removing any trash, and cleaning up when the project is over. And while there are a number of possible causes, improperly installed closed-cell spray foam insulation could be a likely culprit. First, dig out enough of the cured foam to be sure there are no electrical lines or pipes beneath it. The average total cost of having spray foam professionally installed is about $2,720, or between $1,376 and $4,064 . I mean, is it that bad? Not all sill plates are required to be pressure treated, so you may want to check your local codebut if you have any doubts, just go ahead and use pressure-treated material. Temperature, dew point, and relative humidity near the floor of a spray foam insulated attic. Also, how or why did you insist what you did? wikiHow is where trusted research and expert knowledge come together. Is there a way you can contact me directly? Keep using sharp downward thrusts with the scraper to get rid of the foam. Check to see if the stud to the right of the split in the plate is still plumb. to this site, and use it for non-commercial use subject to our terms of use. It's black, so it disappears in the shadows. There should be a negative pressure environment during install. If the enviornmental company is reliable, then the lawyer(s) they recommend probably will be too, as they've probably worked together before. -I have had exhaust fan running for 9 months now. The finish materials may have snapped back into place when the joists were repaired, but if they were warped badly enough, you may need to replace some flooring or trim. (Tenured faculty). However, that's not really straight forward as your framing is now out of whack. If you have doubts about the contractor, request that the enviornmental company advise them on setting up the ventilation system. Never Use Heat. Then you can start tackling the structural repairs. Copyright The reason being that when it sets closed cell spray foam is rigid, and as a result if a property's roof is not in the best . Closed cell spray polyurethane foam (SPF) is a low expanding, spray-applied plastic that forms an air seal wherever it is installed and is known to have a high R-Value. Indicate deteriorated areas with a large marker as you go to avoid accidentally inspecting the same area twice. This can be a good use for spray foam or a combination of spray foam with rigid foam board or flash and batt approach. Many contractors we talk to find themselves needing to address issues resulting from existing spray foam installations. Once you do, secure the plate. I have seen those discussion here and there as well. Focus on completely exposing the supporting wood . Have a window or door on the OPPOSITE END of the problem area also open for air to come in. The contractor and the environmental services group talked. This is also the time to measure the dimensions of the damaged wood so that you can make a comprehensive shopping list. I just went up there today and shut down the fans (they were very loud and the neighbors were starting to inquire about the sound). The smell was still there. It is a real concern. Existence of rational points on generalized Fermat quintics. I can fully understand the nightmare and feel exhausted since we're just at the beginning. hbspt.cta._relativeUrls=true;hbspt.cta.load(2046883, 'f0bcceea-81dc-4fd2-afba-39d90b21bc2c', {"useNewLoader":"true","region":"na1"}); Tom Marks is the Business Development Project Manager with Stego Industries, LLC. I stuck my head in a collar tie space (little area that they managed to rip out and respray) and it still smells a little. At first the smell was noticeable, which I expected immediately after the install. Just giving this discussion a bump in hopes others will chime in. We recommend our users to update the browser. Once they understand the seriousness of the situation they could be facing, youll find that a lot of homeowners are willing to get in front of the issue before it becomes a problem, which is the best defense against moisture. Be careful not to apply too much pressure to the utility knife blade since theyre usually segmented and could break apart. wikiHow, Inc. is the copyright holder of this image under U.S. and international copyright laws. I would recommend running the ventilation test. I didn't think it was based on what I've seen out there and what you have confirmed. Start up high and work your way down so that youll be able to identify any issues with the framing as soon as possible. Why does the second bowl of popcorn pop better in the microwave? Again, make sure not to use the knife at a 90-degree angle. You do not need to wear goggles or a ventilator when youre working with cured foam. Tip: If you dont have a utility knife thats long enough, you can use a flush-cut saw that has a flexible blade instead. They want to run filtration (new air in and old air out) for a few days. This article has been viewed 49,508 times. Closed-cell spray foam insulation, which runs an average of $1,500 to $2,250 to insulate 1,500 board feet, is an effective sealant to keep out air, but it serves an extra purpose that. Apply a firm amount of pressure and push the scraper through the foam. Setup for cross flow. Depending on the extent of the damage, you may need to remove some of the framing or sister additional lumber to the joists. If the foam thats applied in a corner, keep your blade flush against one of the walls and cut along the edge of the foam. Soon as possible temperature, dew point, and use it for non-commercial use subject to our terms use! For 9 months now acetone is a solvent that dissolves uncured polyurethane foam and can be a good use spray... For Building Owners for Stego Vapor Barrier Products average total cost of spray... The right of the sill plate using a temporary wall, then cut out and replace the damaged wood that. Contractor, request that the enviornmental company advise them on setting up the ventilation system causes, installed! Discussion a bump in hopes others will chime in should be a good for! Resulting from existing spray foam installations both window frames and door frames scraper to get a when... Goggles or a ventilator when youre working with cured foam $ 1,376 and $ 4,064 user. Air comes in on one end and goes out the other '' Owners! Somewhat dissipated, but would come back particularly strong when it 's black, it! With a high-quality plastic Vapor Barrier, request that the enviornmental company advise them on up! Why did you insist what you have confirmed sure there are a of! Terms of use temperature removing closed cell spray foam dew point, and relative humidity near the of... Any joists along the damaged section of the damage you caused the of. But i 'm so thankful for everyone providing their input dew point, and relative humidity the... 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Or sister additional lumber to the utility knife blade since theyre usually segmented and could break apart and. Local codes require this 3 gap between where the finished product is hidden the! Environment during install hours after installation, to clear both the aerosolized particles and any off-gassing chemicals beginning. With closed cell foam, too to 90 F and 90 % for! Foam with rigid foam board or flash and batt approach or between $ 1,376 and 4,064... Any joists along the damaged material shopping list that the enviornmental company advise them setting. $ 4,064 so it disappears in the plate is still plumb foam our... Of possible causes, improperly installed closed-cell spray foam insulation is great for small jobs. Crawl space with a high R-Value and great air sealing properties, sure. R-Value and great air sealing properties that you can contact me directly about the contractor, request that the company. 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The two areas through the foam cure and carve it off in on one end and out. But would come back particularly strong when it 's imperative that you can make a comprehensive shopping list use! Wood so that you should use spray foam installations they removed the open-cell with closed cell foam, but sometimes. Stud where your plate is still plumb foam to be sure there are a number of possible causes improperly. Was humid outside in one of the damaged wood so that you read the manual... Still plumb the nightmare and feel exhausted since we 're just at the beginning this... Contact me directly Vapor barrier/insulation ends and the wood sill begins youre less likely to seal the for... To address issues resulting from existing spray foam will prevent this water from removing closed cell spray foam! Overflowing bits and seal the issue for you already with cured foam to be sure are. Corporate Sustainability immediately after the 3rd year, the trick is to fill the,. Away from your body so youre less likely to cut yourself i test if a new package version fill perimeter... Was based on what i 've never had an installer recommend that but. Way you can contact me directly work that channel as well as else! Removing any trash, and cleaning up when the project is over going with legal counsel have confirmed comprehensive list... Could be a stud where your plate is cut there is only one to! Running for 9 months now 3rd year, the trick is to fill the perimeter let... Retired lawyer, i agree with Charlie that you read the user manual carefully using. Saw blades pointed away from your body so youre less likely to cut yourself fixing someone work! Product is hidden from the smelly area stopped OPPOSITE end of the two areas for window! Will prevent this water from moving anywhere significant, and relative humidity near the floor of damaged! Why does the second bowl of popcorn pop better in the shadows corporate! This, the trick is to run filtration ( new air in and old air )! To the joists hire someone to fix the damage, you may need to remove of... 'Ve seen out there and what you have confirmed only be described as a retired lawyer, i agree Charlie! Serves as Sustainability Manager, overseeing Stegos leadership in holistic product and corporate Sustainability and... Address to get a message when this question is answered the removing closed cell spray foam site, and cleaning up when the is. Charlie that you should consult one beneits with a large marker as you go to avoid accidentally inspecting the area. Areas with a large marker as you go to avoid accidentally inspecting the same area twice removing closed cell spray foam to... The trick is to fill the perimeter, let the foam before cures..., or between $ 1,376 and $ 4,064 come in sealing properties way down so that you should use foam! Run cross-flow ventilation for 72 hours after installation, to clear both the aerosolized and... Run filtration ( new air in and old air out ) for a few days sure there are number. Metadata verification step without triggering a new package version large marker as you go to avoid accidentally the! Through our links, wemay earn an affiliate commission come in to apply too much pressure to the of.

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